Minutes of the June 2014 Breed Council Meeting
Meeting was called to order by Nancy Petersen at 1:07pm. Nancy was officiating on behalf of Persian Breed Council Secretary, Linda Acomb who was recovering from surgery. Minutes were recorded by Beth Grant-Field.
Attending the meeting were:
|Carol Krzanowski||Bob Polcaro||Lynn Staker|
|Carrisa Altschul||Tracy Bayarena||Donna Isenberg|
|Janet Altschul||Noelle Giddings||Shirley Peet|
|Tracey Dalton||Hope Gonano||Laura Barber|
|Jean Dugger||Linda Smith||Rusty Nunley|
|Bob Belfatto||Jack Nichols||Wilma Van Scoyk|
|Beth Grant-Field||Donna Waskiewicz||Bruce Isenberg|
|Tom Lukken||Mary Jane Tesdall||Shelby Friemoth|
|Nancy Petersen||Lauren Metz||Geri Fellerman|
|Pam Bassett||Larry Smith|
Tracy Bayarena distributed extra chocolate doubloons purchased by the breed council for the delegate bags to those attending the meeting.
Nancy reviewed the Breed Council Deadlines and Timetable presented to the Breed Council Secretaries during their meeting with the Board that morning.
August 1: BC membership deadline (received in CO)
August 1: BC Secretary candidate declarations (received in CO)
August 1: BC Secretary should have all proposed standard changes from BC members
August 15: BC Secretary must be notified of any breed color or advancement requests that might affect them (If a question dealing with the merging of two breeds for registration and/or show purposes or the disallowance of one breed as an outcross for another breed or the disallowance of the right to show one breed in the classes of another is to appear on one breed's ballot, the first secretary must submit the proposed change to the secretary of the affected breed(s) by certified mail postmarked or by email date-stamped by August 15 (copy the Breeds & Standards Committee - committee chairs are Carla Bizzell and Melanie Morgan).
September 1: Proposed breed standard questions to Breeds & Standards Committee for review.
September 15: Breed Council Secretary proposed standard changes must be received by Central Office via Breeds & Standards Committee
October 25: Breed ballots will be available electronically/sent out upon request by Central Office
December 15: Breed ballots due back to Central Office.
Nancy noted that no one had declared for Persian Breed Council Secretary yet and that Linda Acomb would not be running due to health reasons.
Bob Belfatto expressed concern that votes are not being received in CO when sent by certified mail. It was suggested that members send votes via Priority mail as one can track when it is received by the CO does not have to sign for it.
Nancy said that Linda had not received any proposals for the ballot yet and asked if anyone knew of issues that someone might be submitting. Carissa Altschul indicated that she would be resubmitting the proposal to accept Pointed Bi-colors for championship. She thought if people were concerned about the color, then they didn't need to put a 3000 numbered cat into their breeding program. She said she thought it unlikely that acceptance of pointed bi-colors would have much impact on number of cats being shown. She also indicated that if pointed bi-colors were accepted some breeders could accomplish a 1st in colors which is fun.
Carissa then expressed concern that Persian breeders had to do better as mentors. People need to take out breeding/showing restrictions in sales contracts. Too many fights occur due to very restrictive contracts. Donna Isenberg comments that breeders shouldn't be afraid of competition from their own breedings - need to learn to let go - she does not have a contract - stop prohibiting, need to give new people a future. Carissa suggested that breeders could outline and sign an "understanding" if there is to be a kitten back, etc. to help prevent misunderstandings coming from verbal agreements.
Bob Polcaro expressed concern with tabby markings - he feels that judges are having a hard time finding markings on many cats but are still hanging color ribbons on such cats. He believes good tabby marking can still be seen even with a long coat. Best way to get good color/markings is to bred tabbies to tabbies, dilutes to dilutes, dominants to dominants, etc. Color is being lost with over emphasis on type.
The judges workshop this year included a presentation on tabby pattern at the request of the Persian BC. Pam Bassett said, however, that the presentation was about tabby pattern in general for all breeds,no special emphasis was given to problems with pattern in Persians. Pam, a long time tabby breeder, indicated there is a way to grow a good tabby coat. Starts with the way the coat is blow dryed and then enhanced with use of bay rum. The pattern on a tabby should be groomed into the coat while it dries. The coat should be dryed/combed down, not up.
Nancy noted that, at the request of the Board, the Persian and Exotic BC Secretaries would be meeting after the Annual with the Breeds & Standards Committee to try to reach a compromise on the showing of LH Exotics. The Persian BC voted to have LH Exotics shown in a LH Division of the Exotic Breed since they now receive LH Exotic wins. The Exotic BC voted to continue to show LH Exotics in Persian color classes and receive LH Exotic wins. An extensive and somewhat heated discussion among members present followed.
Jack Nichols expressed concern as to why we are going back for another vote. Donna Isenberg said we can't keep changing the rules - she is a Himalayan breeder, breeding to exhibit some cats and improve the breed. Jack Nichols said it is basically a new board, let's petition the board asking why they are directing us to change, reinforcing what the Persian BC voted for this past year. Geri Fellerman noted that the BCs are advisory to the Board and that she is a Himalayan breeder, not an Exotic breeder.
Nancy Petersen noted that the Persian BC has no control over whether another breed can outcross to Persians.
Nancy Petersen asked the Exotic breeders in the meeting why they objected to showing their LH Exotics in LH Exotic color classes since they receive LH Exotic wins even though there is no mention of LH Exotics in the Exotic Standard. Lorna Friemoth replied that the board so decided. No one addressed the question. Bob Belfatto noted that LH Exotics have been coming through for years, when do we stop them breeding to Persians? How can a breed be a breed if you have to keep outcrossing to another breed?
It was noted that the original compromise was violated. Originally, the BCs were asked to draw lines in the sand. The Persians drew their line as NOT wanting the breeds merged. The Exotics wanted their LH Exotics to be showable. The compromise was to allow LH Exotics to be shown in Persian color classes (at that time, the Board would not consider a compromise that permitted the showing of look-a-likes as separate breeds). The Exotics then agree not to breed LH Exotics to LH Exotics. Since then the Board has failed to honor the compromise by removing the breeding restrictions. And, the Board has now allowed the showing of look-a-likes in separate breeds - pointed Orientals which look like Colorpoints may now be shown in Oriental color classes. Precedent has now been set and there is no longer any reason not to permit LH Exotics to be shown in LH Exotic color classes.
It was proposed that the Exotics should create 2 divisions - SH and LH - that the compromise be that LH Exotics not compete as Persians. Hope Gonano proposed that 3000# cats be separated out. Isenberg said in the ring we could have SH and LH divisions of Exotics - a good cat is going to make a final. We are fighting over something that doesn't make a difference. Others thought that purist judges would not judge LH Exotics fairly if they were put in a separate division of Exotic. Someone said maybe the breeding restriction against LHE to LHE should be put back in.
Bob Polcaro said breeders say don't breed SH Exotic to SH Exotic, go to Persians to get type. As long as breeders do that they will want to be able to show LH Exotics. Donna Isenberg said that in the past you had to take someone's word that a Colorpoint carrier was a Himalayan but now genetically we can test that. Nancy Petersen said that she's not objecting to LH Exotics being shown, just objecting to them being shown as Persians. Geri Fellerman said what would Himalayans look like today if the Board had not merged them with Persians? Carissa Altschul said go ahead take out the Himmies, then no place to merge the Exotic.
Donna Isenberg noted that misinformation is a problem - new breeders use 3000# and 7000# cats in breeding programs, not being trained to know what the numbers mean. Tracey Dalton said don't use LH/SH Exotics. Tracy Bayarena said that's taking advantage of a newbie. She also commented that good judges would not penalize a LH Exotic being shown as an Exotic.
Bruce Isenberg said the magic word was knowledge - we need to put out a description of LH cats (Persians, Colorpoint Persian Carriers, LH Exotics) on our BC websites/newletters. People do look for information. Nancy Petersen commented that goes back to the CFA Mentoring Program - people aren't asked what color they want to breed, just what breed, when being assigned a mentor. In the old days, people didn't say they "bred Persians" instead they said they "bred XX (color) Persians". New breeders need to be told the benefits of color breeding. Carissa Altschul - separate the two breeds - when we bring in new people, they have no incentive to keep a Persian breeding program as there are more and more 7000# cats and newbies' want to win. They are not going to care if it is a LH Exotic or Persian. Gradually, there will be few Persians left with regular Persian #s and Persians will be forced to merge. Need to make LH Exotics a separate division of Exotics.
In European registration associations, Persians are mostly all LH Exotics. Tracey Dalton said the big argument was because Europeans were falsifying registrations because they couldn't show their cats. Carissa Altschul said that LH Exotics that win, judges learn who they are from catalogs, could help to be in their own class.
Nancy Petersen asked what was discussed at the Exotic meeting. Hope Gonano did not want to say what had been discussed, did not want to be misquoted. Tracy Bayarena asked why there is so much animosity here? Carissa Altschul said what you are hearing is frustration as Persian BC has bent over and been raped.
Donna Isenberg commented that she wants a pedigree to be what it is. Most people don't want to mess up the breed. Hope Gonono said that people are bringing in LH Exotics after 5 generations. Jack Nichols said we have no input; the Board will make their own decision. Donna Isenberg said we need to come to another compromise - need to say how we feel.
Geri Fellerman said she liked the Persian BC ad in the delegate book. Everyone agreed!
Meeting was adjourned at 2:34pm.